trade crude oil live, peter shork, learn to trade futures, S&P futures chat room

Trading on 10000$

From Oil to NQ, Crude to YM, and DOW to CL.. All Futures chat here.
User avatar
BlitzMX
Newbie
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 7:30 pm

Trading on 10000$

Postby BlitzMX » Wed May 26, 2010 5:37 pm

Hello

I have been studying a bit and i was hopping someone could confirm me these numbers please and tell me some more about them.
So, i intend to begin with 10000$ (Euros as i´m in Europe, but no matter, we´ll treat only as Dollars), and i tried to see more precislly what i would get for my money in each trade.
so... on the paper money of TOS i got this:


- /ES Qty: 1
Long
Bot at: 1082
Sold at: 1082,25
Had: 100.000,00 €
Got: 100.005,50 €
Made: 5,50 €
With: 0,25 = 1 TICK = 1/4 Point

And when i bot 1 CFD it cost me 5628.50$ . Is this correct? Does 1CFD costs this much money? Because if i´m correct ill have to trade this amount with my 10000$.
And i´ll be making 5.50$ (0.25 point) or 18$(0.50 Point) or 30.50$(0.75 Point) or 43$(1 Point).

Now here is my question... wil ThinkorSwim take me any more money on a real account??? or is this the real and final value for each trade? and then i can transfer some money leaving the Principal behind for more trades?
Because if this is right... This is it....
Its simple to make 0.25 or 0.50 and i´ll always be making money.
I just need to do some hundreds on one week and i´ll be making money on DayTrading?

Is this a real strategy or am i dreaming???

Thank You
Best Regards
BlitzMX

User avatar
MonkeyTrader
I´m Rather Good Now !
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:10 pm

Re: Trading on 10000$

Postby MonkeyTrader » Wed May 26, 2010 6:20 pm

Hi Blitz,

Couple of things....

Welcome. I notice its your first post. :P

You are dreaming, before we get any further ... :)

To answer your points.

5.6k is overnight margin requirement for ES. One ES Futures contract will cost that much to hold overnight, yes.

Firstly, highly discourage you to trade and hold even one ES overnight with only 10k. You will be risking too much of the account imo.

Trading intraday you will be able to comfortably trade 4 contracts on ES with 10k. I am pretty sure that the intraday margin is 25% of the overnight which means the 4 contracts will only cost you half your 10k. But, I would strongly suggest that anyway this is too heavy for your 10k account.

I have no idea of what your level of trading experience is, or how you trade, but I think I can safely say that 2 contracts for whatever style of trading you do, is enough (for the time being).

I think the paper version of TOS mimics the Live Version very well, there are no extra fees with Live Trading, actually with Live you can even negotiate yourself some better commissions with only a bit of futures volume (thats another story). That should be final value for each trade, as you put it.

But yes, you are right, if you really think it is easy to consistently make 0.25 or 0.50 then go ahead, and yes, in that event you will always be making money. Taking 0

Let me just ask you, how are you going to counter losses with this "taking 0.25 or 0.50 strategy" ?

OK. Lastly, why are you calling ES a CFD ?

Later.
I really don´t mind being on the other side of your trade.

User avatar
BlitzMX
Newbie
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 7:30 pm

Re: Trading on 10000$

Postby BlitzMX » Wed May 26, 2010 7:08 pm

Thank you for such a complete response.
I´am not dreaming after all. :D :D :D :D
You made some very good points and some very good questions i´ll be happy to answer.

1- I did not know that i was buying on overnight price, so i was glade you said the price intra day will be lower.

2- I will not buy for overnight, i never intended to.

Finally, "Counter Losses", i think you mean wins versus losses. I am doing maybe 3 or 4 wins and 1 loss. About 30K / month with the 100K on the Paper money account and trading 10contracts each time on the same strategy... 0.25, 0.50, 0.75 and sometimes 1 point.
And about ES being a CFD which is apparently not, i am sorry too, as i am a noob and have many difficulties with terms and the news words the stock implies. :? :S

Any more information will be very helpfull.
I am also trying to change my strategy from 10 to 1 contract so i can mimic the time when i will have only the 10K, 1 or 2 like you said.

This forum were referred to me from someone in the trade2win forum. Very happy to have found you! very professional someone said you were.

Thank you again and best regards.
BlitzMX

User avatar
Bon
Guru
Posts: 3100
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:54 am
Contact:

Re: Trading on 10000$

Postby Bon » Wed May 26, 2010 7:22 pm

Hi Blitz,

Glad to hear you were recommended. This is exactly how we want new clients. Thanks for joining up and posting some great first questions. We expect to hear a lot more from you !

Ask away, anything you like.

I am going to let someone else answer the finer points of your question as I must sleeeeeeep.

Speak to you soon.
Please be constructive....
Debate is encouraged! We are all here to LEARN :-)

User avatar
MonkeyTrader
I´m Rather Good Now !
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:10 pm

Re: Trading on 10000$

Postby MonkeyTrader » Wed May 26, 2010 7:32 pm

1 - Yes, that must be overnight margin. Its always much less inside the standard trading day, but dont get caught by the times. Full margin comes in at 2215 I think, but you need to check this with ToS staff as I can not be 100%. In any case, you should not really use the margin imo, if you stick to 2 contracts, then your 10k€ is enough for full overnight margin even though you aren´t going to use it.

Don´t blow your account by trading too heavy. 10k really is not very much with ES.

2 - GOOD. Holding overnight is a different game completely and requires larger account and different skill sets.

So you have 3-4 wins, vs 1 loss. OK. Fine. But, you already quoted that your wins are 1 or 2 ticks only. So how big are your stops ?

30k on paper money in a month. I like your style. :)

Just remember one thing, emotions play a big part in this and the transition over to a Live Account can hit you in the face very fast and hard. Be careful, is all I am saying. Your strategy seems great, I am impressed with your return and your results, who wouldnt be....

I assume you are not scaling out with the 10, as you are getting only 1 to 2 ticks (3 or 4 max) profit. So trading with 1 contract should actually be OK, you are a pure scalper in my eyes. It is interesting.

I would defo start on 1 contract. See how that plays. I see no real benefit in having 2 contracts (which is what I would normally recommend, to scale out and leave a runner).
I really don´t mind being on the other side of your trade.

User avatar
MonkeyTrader
I´m Rather Good Now !
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:10 pm

Re: Trading on 10000$

Postby MonkeyTrader » Wed May 26, 2010 7:35 pm

You do need to realize one thing too.... Scalping like this is actually easier with a paper account. The fills will be slightly unrealistic with paper, although with ES there is not too much slippage.

Although close, when scalping such tiny portions of a point, you will get burned more often with a live account.

Just a word of warning.
I really don´t mind being on the other side of your trade.

User avatar
BlitzMX
Newbie
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 7:30 pm

Re: Trading on 10000$

Postby BlitzMX » Thu May 27, 2010 3:47 am

MonkeyTrader wrote:You do need to realize one thing too.... Scalping like this is actually easier with a paper account. The fills will be slightly unrealistic with paper, although with ES there is not too much slippage.

Although close, when scalping such tiny portions of a point, you will get burned more often with a live account.

Just a word of warning.

Thank you
I am aware that the idea of going real may differ on the psicho aspect.
But i still have a lot to learn and read befor i go live.

Best regards

User avatar
MonkeyTrader
I´m Rather Good Now !
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:10 pm

Re: Trading on 10000$

Postby MonkeyTrader » Fri May 28, 2010 6:55 am

Good for you. Far too many people can´t wait to blow an account or two and throw everything away quickly.

Get comfortable first. Well done Blitz. Look forward to hearing how things go for you :D
I really don´t mind being on the other side of your trade.

User avatar
BlitzMX
Newbie
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 7:30 pm

Re: Trading on 10000$

Postby BlitzMX » Fri May 28, 2010 5:15 pm

Thank you.

So here are some more questions.

1- How do i loose the excess of 90 to 95K$ i have on the paper money account as i would like to mimic the real thing by starting only with the 10k or less.

2- I tryed today to trade 1 ES at a time and made 150$ in about one hour. Is it good or bad?

3- I did start loosing money trading 1 ES at a time... so i tried to pay attention to the price tendency with a 5min chart. I was using 133Tick chart. Which is the best for this?

Best regards
Blitz

User avatar
MonkeyTrader
I´m Rather Good Now !
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:10 pm

Re: Trading on 10000$

Postby MonkeyTrader » Sat May 29, 2010 11:02 am

1) I don´t think you can change the amount of money in your paper account. Best thing is to ask ToS support, they may be able to set something at their end for you. I´m not sure.

2) 150$ per hour sounds OK to me. With one contract ok. If you can do it "consistently" then its good, if its a fluke then its "bad".

3) 133tick on ES is pretty fast, especially compared to a 5min. As for answering which is best, thats down to you and the style of trading. theres a vast difference though, did you try 1min ?

It seems interesting to me that you made money with 10, but you started to lose money with 1.... I could understand this if you were scaling out with the 10, but as (i think) you were all in all out on 10 as you are with 1, then it makes a point I feel.

Is the reason for this the fact that you are trying to hold 1 for longer than you would the whole 10 ? As the rewards from 1 are rather different than 10, especially when you consider commissions and pure scalping.
I really don´t mind being on the other side of your trade.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest